Podcast Episode 28: Who am I when I leave the Company?

Nakeeta: [00:00:00] Some businesses actually do expect the team to die for the business and will even use that language, or they will use the language of, we're a family, which is really lovely, but it can be quite problematic trying to put boundaries in place. 'cause with family, you're supposed to live and die and breathe for one another.

I think we have to be quite careful culturally from that perspective. I. The need to be was very much instigated by the fact that I needed to look after my health. There was a whole passion discussion as well. What am I most passionate about? And I've got a growth mindset. I want to grow things. So making that decision was actually really hard.

It's identity based. Who am I when? I leave

Leo: Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast, where we uncover the human side of some of the most inspirational leaders in our industry. I'm your host, Leo Judkins, and as an ex iGaming director term performance coach, I've worked with over 200 leaders from companies like 3, 6 5 flutter and many [00:01:00] more to help them build the habits to achieve sustainable high performance.

In these episodes, we share exactly what it takes for you to achieve the same. So with that being said, let's dive in. Hey everybody. Welcome to the iGaming Leader Podcast. I am so excited because today I am here with Nikita Janssen Fund, Rensburg. 17 years in iGaming, six years at Ellipse Entertainment or Mega Group.

Uh, moved from head of CRM up all the way up to group CEO, super exciting journey that I wanna talk about. And recently co-founded her own agency, Strat Edge. And UK Ambassador for Women in Gaming in Africa. So, uh, yeah, really, really cool to have you here, Nikita. I know we've been, we've been speaking for a bit and, uh, I'm excited to talk about your journey today.

So welcome to the, welcome to the podcast.

Nakeeta: Awesome. Thank you, Rick. You are really looking forward to it and, and actually grateful to be here.

Leo: Really cool. Hey, we, uh, we met in Bara at Ice. For the first time [00:02:00] after somebody in your team had had visited a mastermind session that I'd done for IGB exec, I remember that we spoke only for a few minutes, but what intrigued me the most when we, when we talked is, is the progress that you made within the business that you were in at the time.

So you spoke about how you, you know, how you moved through the ranks from, from head of CRM to group CEO. Super remarkable journey and. I wanted to kind of start off with maybe some of the moments that you were most proud of in that, in that journey that you've had there.

Nakeeta: Yeah, thank you. It was just such an incredible journey of a, you know, that 17 year period moving through all these different roles.

I think big moments for me was, I think more on building a team and building a team with people in different time zones with different cultural contexts and bringing them together that they would. Serve one another. And I, and I think that's just so important. And, uh, when you look back of the [00:03:00] shareholder meeting and your shareholders say to you, wow, you built so many leaders, people aren't afraid.

They're thinking for themselves. They even challenge the things that they're saying to them or that you say to them because they're looking for clarity. And I think that is probably the, the most defining and important part of your leadership is knowing that your team. Question you and they don't feel afraid.

I think that's so incredibly important. And I think probably within our industry, our gaming, everything is about, we have an idea, we need to move now. You know, forget about documenting anything. We'll just fly. And I think that was also a really big moment for us, was documenting strategies, getting buy-in and having a team that's super clear on what needs to happen so that, you know, even if I wasn't around or sleeping, because Australia was up.

Everyone knew what they had to do and they felt confident in that. They felt confident and empowered in their decision making. So I would say that's probably [00:04:00] the most, you know, amazing thing for me. But I think within, in the CRM space, as I'll admit, I'm a big fan of CRM and everything about CRM. It's my Me

Leo: too.

It's

Nakeeta: my roots, it's my foundation. But I think one of the biggest moments was. We had seen all these amazing CRM platforms and I'm talking about, you know, 10 years ago, but I wanted to have my cake and eat it, and I think that was, was quite a difficult thing. And I found it was like, why don't we just build something?

So I. We had sourced the developer and the in settlements. This guy went from nothing to a completed CRM platform so that we could manage everything ourselves internally. And then we spent, I would say, another five months really refining the platform and, and that for me was probably the most exciting project.

I've ever worked on was working hand in hand with this developer, retesting, rechecking, you know, comparing our source data and then eventually having a platform that we trusted [00:05:00] more than ourselves, actually.

Leo: Yeah.

Nakeeta: Yeah. So I think, yeah, that, that was probably one of the, the best moments in CRN.

Leo: I love that.

Nikita, you probably don't know this, but I had exactly the same journey. So I was the director of retention and we built our own platform after I actually had Penny from Opt Move on the, on the podcast as well. But after using Opt Move, we built our own platform in-house and uh, same for me, like most proudest moment was actually when we rolled that out so we could do the segmentation and cross channel campaigns.

It was awesome. So love that. One of the things that I loved about your answer as well is that you go straight into how. When I'm asking you, what you're most proudest of is, is actually you talk about the team, not yourself, right? And that, I think that's such a great show of leadership. But one of the big things that happens.

For most people with rapid career growth is that it comes with significant challenges, right? Uh, I've, I'm thinking things like imposter syndrome, overworking to prove that you belong, sacrificing your personal life. Very typical things that, you know, come up when [00:06:00] people progress really quickly. Like what, what are some of the things that hit hardest for you on that journey and how, how did that show up in your daily life?

Nakeeta: It was actually quite interesting 'cause I spoke to a coach once and, and he listened to my rant because it's a normal part of leadership. You just have this rant about the overwhelm. It's not even, yeah, for me personally, I'd say it's not a team thing because I, I felt it was very important to get to the end of each day, not blaming the team for any shortfalls.

I think I was really focused on that 'cause it's so easy to blame the team and then you just have a really horrible, toxic environment and, and business as a result. Momentum, but. I think the, the one thing that the coach said to me after my, my lovely little Rand, he said to me, do you know what? He's like, you made work priorities and negotiable and everything else is negotiable.

Mm. That was such a shock moment for me to realize that it was in my language, it was the way I spoke. Everything about work was a [00:07:00] non-negotiable. I remember once having to travel to a conference on Mother's Day and. It's when it's like, but we've got all these things for the kids that they wanna do for you.

But it became the non-negotiable of, oh, well we can do something in the morning and then I have to get 'em offline. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's not about being a good or a bad person, it's just that you, you lose your own identity and you, you lose track with what are the healthy boundaries that you should have in place.

And I'm sure there are tons of other leaders that have had, that have had this experience where. Priorities to becoming non-negotiable and I found myself, you know, spending my Sundays trying to plan my week ahead. And so really there, there was no time to reset and I think it is so very important that time to reset because you are.

Overwhelming information. Really it's challenges to the strategy. It is contractual items, it's corporate [00:08:00] things that you need to think about these, your team needs, especially when there's challenges like COVID. It it that really, really challenged us. I think there was hardly a team member who didn't experience some form of loss, either a spouse.

Lost their job or they lost a family member, they lost a friend, and you don't want to compare a job to someone's life, but at the end of the day, they can have very similar impacts on people when all of a sudden they're one income household and they can't pay their mortgage. Yep. These become very real things, but I think that that is probably the, the.

Biggest challenge for any leader is that overwhelm of information you make, the business number one, and then all the other things are symptomatic. The imposter syndrome, constantly needing to prove yourself working when you're sick, uh, you know, getting a diagnosis from the doctor that you're like literally on the edge of probably dying.

And you go, do you know what? To that. I just need to deal with it.

Leo: Lemme park it for a second. [00:09:00] Yeah,

Nakeeta: and I think that that does become the mindset is that you, you must think you're immortal.

Leo: Yeah. Yeah. But, and, and that's the thing, right? Nikita, I, I thank you for sharing that because in our industry, things are always, they're so fast paced, right?

There is always the next thing. It might be with, like you said, with, with the team, or it might be with regulation, or you might open up in a new territory that has a specific deadline, whatever it is, right? And so there is. Always firefighting. There is always urgent stuff. And so you park the stuff in your private life, and I'm sure that's something that you had noticed before and you'd probably seen before.

It took that coach to kind of put that mirror in front of you. But why do you feel that it was so difficult for you to change that and to, to maybe crowd in more of your private life, of your professional life?

Nakeeta: Yeah. I'm gonna talk about it again. It's palm. I didn't create in the beginning. That that was, I, I think I was just too inexperienced and [00:10:00] I, I didn't think of what it would look like in the long term.

So I had, yeah, no boundaries. In the beginning I was super driven, passionate, and there wasn't that many dynamics to my life. And so as time went on, it just became the norm to be available at three o'clock in the morning for the team in Australia. But then conversely being available at 10 o'clock at night for, you know, guys in the us.

So. I think it, it really is that you don't set the boundaries and then as life progresses, you have more layers to your life. Your, your elderly parents stop getting sick. You have kids. Life changes and all of a sudden you do have a different set of needs. But now to put those boundaries in place really difficult.

Yeah. Yeah. I think you, you flounder and you feel this need to do more and to prove yourself, but I must be able to do this. I must be capable. I've all, you know, I've, I've heard these things. I've always been capable. What's happened to me? Now I've become stupid. I've become less capable. I've become [00:11:00] stressed, overwhelmed.

This is not me. Of course it's an not you, because now you have more layers to your life that you didn't have before. And I think that's probably the, the single biggest thing that a lot of us learn in hindsight is with whatever we set up in our future, we need to make sure those boundaries are clear upfront.

Leo: Yeah, I love that. What, what would you say to someone that's struggling with that? Because one of the big things is of course, that many people feel that if they're constantly available, when they're always on call, when they're. You know, rapid in their responses. They're on top of everything. They know everything that's going on, that, that is good leadership.

Yep. Right? Mm-hmm. So what would you say to someone that is feeling that way, wants to set more boundaries, but is also afraid that perhaps that is showing as if they're maybe not as motivated anymore or not as committed to their job anymore?

Nakeeta: I think probably one of the first things that will help overcome the challenge of, of creating boundaries is have I created enough leaders?

In the [00:12:00] team that's working with me, are they confident to perform on their own or am I having to do all the thinking? Because that will definitely be a problem. And so one of the lessons I had to learn was empower people and that, yeah, my ability to rise will improve when I'm lifting the people around me.

So that becomes your number one focus. And sometimes it can take a bit of a while, but it's an incredible investment. I would do that again. Every single time is really investing in Yep, the right people, watching them grow, watching them perform and knowing that you can put something in their hands and they'll look after it.

I think the next thing is very cultural. Within the business that you're a part of, will the business allow you to put those boundaries in place? And I'm going to be really honest to those leaders out there, is that from a cultural perspective, some businesses will be super open having that discussion with you where you can be vulnerable and.

Talk about the fact that, you know, this needs to happen. Some businesses aren't built that way though some businesses actually do [00:13:00] expect the team to die for the business. We'll even use that language or they will use the language of, we're a family, which is really lovely, but it can be quite problematic trying to put boundaries in place.

'cause with family you're supposed to live and die and breathe for one another. With family, it is unconditional love and unconditional forgiveness and so boundaries are very different with family. I think we have to be quite careful culturally from, from that perspective. Some businesses culturally are not ready to make that step.

Board because they love this hero worship environment where there is a lot of firefighting and drama. And it makes them feel like they're getting things done and that they're fighting the good fight so long as they have all of these dramatic elements around them. So for me, I'm data led person, so I like to work with data models and predict what's going to happen in the business and how we can make adjustments.

There's a lot of people who don't work that way. They literally live in the moment. And from a cultural [00:14:00] perspective, if you can't change that in the business, I would say you have to make the hard decision of probably moving on. And Yeah. And no one wants to talk about that, right? It almost feels like you're being disloyal.

Actually, the most important thing that you can do for yourself is to honor and respect yourself, and that's probably the biggest lesson I've learned in the last six months is that whenever I heard self low, I was like, oh my word. That just sounds insane. Please go away. I don't like hearing that nonsense.

Yeah, it just sounds weird, but I realized that. Self-love actually comes from a place of self respect and honoring yourself. Yes. And that isn't the language you use to yourself and the way you talk about yourself, the things that you say in your mind, the, the kind of language and conversations you surround yourself with, and then that will really make you look at your relationships.

So yes, I think it's, it's in depth and yet it is so simple.

Leo: Yeah, it's, I think it's super straightforward, right? Your priority. It's. Simple, not easy. That's kind of what I'm trying to say it. Your first priority has to be [00:15:00] yourself, and it's all about self-respect first. Right. And I think one of the difficulties though is that it slowly slips in, right?

And it's slow. Oh, there's just this one more thing that I need to do today or this week, but next week it'll be better. Or after this quarter it will be better. Or once we've got, you know, once our, once the ltip is in, whatever the bonus comes in, I'll calm down. Yeah, right. So. It's like quicksand very often.

So how, you know, like what could we do to help people recognize that they're in that rather than, you know, having to wait all the way until they're burnt out or, you know, dying to then take action.

Nakeeta: Yeah, I think this is where it comes to, you need to have a mentor. A mentor who can. Be really honest with you and who will be honest with you?

I think people underrate mentorship and coaching, and I think it is something that we have to invest in, whether it's a [00:16:00] relationship or something that you're paying for, it is very, very important. And then belonging to community of people that you can have these. Conversations with, I think very much what you're doing, Lee, is exactly what leaders need to be investing in.

It's exactly that. Yeah. It's about having that one-to-one, but then also having the community.

Leo: Okay, cool. Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense. It's difficult. I always say a brain surgeon doesn't operate on their own head either. Right? It's very difficult to see what's going on when you're inside that situation.

So I think that's, that's totally true. One of the things I always find super interesting is, uh, with people that progress quickly through their careers, which happens a lot in, in gaming like it has to you. One of the big challenges, of course, is that. You know, the people that were your mates, right? That you were in the, that you were having drinks with in your team now become your employees or your team, right?

And suddenly you are their boss and they were people that, you know, you were out with before. Like how did you, what were [00:17:00] some of the changes in relationships that you had to make and how did that affect you?

Nakeeta: I think at the beginning it does affect you because you want it to be accepted. You, you want to still have those relationships.

I wouldn't say you want to be liked, but you still want to maintain those relationships and it really does come down to each relationship. I think for the most part, I was incredibly lucky and I'd also work very hard with my team members to create an environment whereby we buy, we. We knew what the boundaries were.

And I think that was the most important thing is I had to set boundaries with them first. And I said, guys, let's set the boundaries first. Let's set the rules for engagement first, and then we can continue defining what our relationship looks like. But I find too often it's very natural for human beings.

They want to be liked, so they try to build a relationship first and set boundaries afterwards. And you can't do that. Your team needs to know this is the strategy, this is what the business is aiming for. These are our policies, this is the. [00:18:00] The value system we stand for. And once you've gotten that right, then yes, I, I think you can continue to build a relationship with those people.

You might find that with certain people you're still there for them, but maybe you, you are not visiting their homes anymore. You need to have a transparent conversation about that, and why are you doing that? Because you now have to think about the fairness for everybody involved and acknowledge that as a human being, you will always give some preference to your family or your friends.

And so the relationship needs to change for everyone. And so I think those were interesting conversations, but people were really good about it. Yes, you will get a handful of people. Who might have been in the business longer than you, who might feel that they're more deserving of it, but they didn't follow the same pathway to get themselves there.

They feel like maybe it should have been given to them because of their loyalty, and those are going to be the hardest relationships. [00:19:00] Those are the ones where I think you do need to have a little bit of a thick skin and understand that they are not gonna like you anymore. They might actually have a problem with you now, and what are you looking for?

Do you need people to be nice to you or do you need them to execute the strategy? And if you can't do that politely, then you move on and you just have to accept that that relationship won't be the same again. And, and I'll be honest, I did have that handful of people who pulled away and it does hurt at first 'cause you are human.

But you do understand that that is just part of the journey.

Leo: Love that. Nikita. I mean, one of the big things, of course there is that. You know, it's great when times are good, but times will not always be good, right? There will have to be difficult conversations, and those conversations are very, very difficult when somebody is so close to you that you are not perceived or not acting as their boss.

I think that's the, that's the hardest bit. I had a, I had a suitability call with somebody that. Wanted to join our mastermind as CEO, um, last week. And, and he had this great [00:20:00] expression that said, uh, where he said, uh, the higher you go, the thinner the air gets. And I think that's so true, right? You, we feel very also a human need, like you said, is of course to be part of a tribe to be recognized and to be with others where you can share and.

I think as a, as a CEO, that's very difficult. Right? That's, it's difficult. Your partner doesn't want to hear it anymore because you talk about business all the time. Your, your friends don't understand and don't understand. They, they're not in the same business, not in the same role, and you can't tell your team because they'd freak out.

Yes. So how did that go for you and what was the moment where you felt, you know, you realized that you'd become isolated even with within your own success story?

Nakeeta: I would say this, that. Yes, you can build a tribe, and I did do that. I created an advisory board of people who would keep me honest and who I could be really transparent with in terms of what I was seeing the business or experiencing of the team.

But ultimately, it is still lonely because there are decisions that you'll have to make. Often on your own [00:21:00] because others are not ready to make those decisions or they seem too tough, but they need to happen nonetheless. And then there's certain things that you don't wanna say only you can execute, but that is the reality.

There are certain things for, you know, privacy reasons or confidentiality, or it's at a, a level of the business where you're the key individual and so it's required of you. To be the one to execute it or have that conversation. And I think you just have to get accustomed to that and get comfortable with being uncomfortable.

And I think that is probably the most important thing. And I actually found, I used to set like a little task for myself every day. That every day must do one thing that I really hate, that makes me really uncomfortable. And I, I had to do that every day to condition my brain. To accept that when I'm faced with stress, fight or flight is not an option, right?

It, it really is about that. You know, there's, I know there's a couple of different quotes for it. [00:22:00] In Africa, we've gu one, are you the lion or are you the Impala? Yeah. Yeah. Which, which one are you? And so I, to actually very much in, in a soulful way, perspective, condition, my brain. Love that. Uncomfortable is okay.

Fear is good. Fear is just a trigger warning system. It's telling you. Something's not right here. How you deal with the fear is a completely different thing, and so you have to decide that I'm gonna respond to fear and I'm not going to react to it. But it's tough. It is really tough trying to condition yourself.

'cause your first instinct is, I just put it off. I'm not gonna do this thing today. But I would find something, whether it was personal or work, but I would have to do at least one thing every day that made me super uncomfortable.

Leo: What a great approach, Nikita. It's, I love that because you know that fear is just your comfort zone pushing back, right?

And we all know that in our comfort zone, all of our dreams go to die. So it's, and I think that just pushing out of that is like a really, really great approach. That's [00:23:00] trajectory. I wanna talk a little bit more about kind of the sacrifices perhaps that you had to make. You spoke about it a little bit, but from the outside, your trajectory looks like a perfect success story, right?

Consistent promotions, expanding responsibilities, ultimately becoming that group, CEO, and now, recently, co-founding your business and was, talk about that change in a bit as well. But what were some of the, um, like maybe the internal costs that you had of that climb, you know, that nobody saw that. Maybe you are happy to talk about now that at the time perhaps people felt, didn't even see,

Nakeeta: uh, you know, I've always been precautious speaking about this specific one, but I'm gonna speak about it.

And there was a, a small circle of people who were involved in me, and I think that the, the biggest sacrifice was health. There were two aspects of my health that was majorly sacrificed. And basically between the ages of 27, 28 ish to 35, I had 19 pregnancies, only two of the children. Um, [00:24:00] physically, there's nothing wrong with me.

It was stress induced because I was on this trajectory, right? I was traveling. I mean, with the pregnancy, with my daughter, I. Four workshops, one being two weeks, and I had hyperemesis Provo him. So any woman who used that will know how absolutely sick. You're so, so I think that is, that is definitely huge sacrifice.

Huge, huge sacrifice. Yeah. I don't wanna say, oh. If I look back, would I do the same thing? That's not even an option to dis to discuss it that way because for me in life is about moving forward and not about living in the past and thinking how I could have fixed it. I think the second one was having an autoimmune disease that will probably never have a cure that requires you to be on clinical trials and back and forth to hospital and.

I think that was really challenging, going to the hospital, being plugged up to all these drips, but [00:25:00] you're still sitting on your phone, sending Skype messages, answering emails, and pretending as if this is not happening. Because yeah, you don't want people to think less of you. You don't want people to know that you, you have to go for these treatments and you have to wait for all these doctor updates because then it means that you're not as capable or as available.

As someone who doesn't have to make these regular trips to the hospital, I think that there's that fear in our industry. You know, no one to, you know, talk about it or think about it. And I think those were the, were the two real big sacrifices, but it affected physical health and it affected mental health.

Because you can't be after strongest if, if. And again, that's what came back and resonated very much with me about self-respect. I had to respect myself and realize that actually I. I love what I do. I love this industry. I mean, I actually came into the gaming industry [00:26:00] 'cause I love gaming products. I am an absolute matter for pretty much any type of gaming product.

It doesn't matter whether it's a Tamagotchi or, you know, the 1990s aliens arcade game or the, the, the latest on what they've got an Xbox or PlayStation or gambling. It, it really doesn't matter. I just, I love all forms of, of gaming products, so, but I think yes, it. That's where I had to start making some, some big changes recently because prioritizing my health is definitely number one.

But you know, the interesting thing is though, Lee, is that over the last six months, as I per respected my health more, as I respected myself more, I found that my pathway to getting better, that significantly, and I go to hospital significantly less now. Isn't that crazy? Love that,

Leo: Nikita. I'm so sorry to hear all of that, and I'm, thank you for, for sharing it.

That's. I can't [00:27:00] even imagine how tough that must have been and how, how difficult you must have had it, because it's also, these are the fights that you fight alone, right? In your own head. I mean, you've got your partner of course, but you are fighting those fights. And we had a coaching call and we, we, you, you mentioned servant leadership as well.

You mentioned it before this call, and I wanna talk a little bit more about that because it's something definitely that other people have as well, that mindset and there's not. Not anything wrong with that mindset necessarily, but it, it certainly has challenges, right? And it certainly has, like it can end up in murky water.

So talk a little bit about that, how that's shown, showed up for you and how that's affected you and what you've learned from actually being in that mindset and, and working with that.

Nakeeta: Sure. So the one thing I can say is that servant leadership is something that. Is ingrained into me since I was a kid. So growing up, the matriarch of our family was my grandmother.

She was born in 1930. She was a [00:28:00] very, very strong woman, but everything was about serving the family and serving the, the, the greater good. So for her, if yet to lose a few, a few things on the side, but you could keep the family together or you could make sure the whole family successful. That was really important.

So I took that into leadership with me and it's. A part of myself that I actually really love and find annoying in the same time, because there are so many leadership and that comes to, you know, coaching and mentoring my team, making sure they can be the strongest leaders. I want them to be even better than me.

I want them to outshine because it's just testimony to a great journey. You wanna see the company thrive and grow and you actually. Come across as as very courageous. 'cause you have to be with servant leadership. Servant leadership isn't about doing what everyone says. It's actually about being courageous for the whole because that's the focus.

So I think there's a lot of good that comes with it. However, [00:29:00] the biggest. I struggled with, with servant leadership was that because you're constantly in service, you don't think of ever saying no. You don't think of like pausing the bus just to, you know, review. Let's just check or are we headed in the right direction?

And I think at times people just get used to the idea that if there's a problem, this person will step in. Do the firefighting, take this person. It doesn't matter what happens. And that is part of being in service to others. You know, you, you form that mentality of, you know, no project is left behind, no man is left behind.

You are constantly trying to kind of spread your arms longer and longer to hold onto everything. But that's not always possible. And so I think sometimes servant leadership can make us, you know. It makes us kind of underestimate how much is needed and potentially overestimate how far we can [00:30:00] stretch to, and even though we'll stretch all the way there, you start losing bigger and bigger things along the way that don't make sense anymore with what you're trying to do.

And so it's not about sense checking a strategy 'cause servant leadership's all about that. I mean, hey, you're so invested in the strategy, it's fantastic, but you're not sense checking yourself.

Leo: Yeah. Yeah. That's such a great point. It's not sense checking yourself, I think is, is one of the biggest difficulties again, you know, especially when everything seems urgent and it's just, just for a little bit longer and then it'll be okay.

And one of, one of the things that you've mentioned is that you've had a, a mentor that kept you in check, you know, just to, you know, that you had, that you spoke with regularly. You said she helps you get rid of, you know, specific stories that you're telling yourself during, uh, you know. Whenever that comes up.

And Daniel Beard a few weeks ago spoke about this in podcast as well, that it's all about the stories that we tell ourselves, right? It's the stories that we tell ourselves that hold us back from, you know, achieving the, the results that we want. [00:31:00] So when was it that you first realized that you needed somebody to hold that mirror up for you?

Nakeeta: I would say that it was shortly after taking a very big leadership role. So when I became the, the head of gaming, it was. Everything operationally. Commercially. I even took over the data team because it became a thing of like, okay, well you know, you're really strong commercially marketing and, and CRM, how about you take all the ops stock?

'cause ops tends to service CRM. But hang on a second. You've also got a, a background in applied business statistics. So why don't you take the data team? 'cause you'll actually understand what they're talking about. Yeah, right. This is what happens. So, oh my god, you all of a sudden become the go-to for.

Everything. Yeah. And it was really in that moment, all of a sudden you've got 11 departments reporting into you. The team is over 120. So you've gone from having a seven man team to having 120 plus man team very, very suddenly. I mean, that all happened over a three month period. And so you. In that [00:32:00] moment, definitely for me it was like I, I need someone that I can speak to, and it actually happened quite organically.

This director had given me feedback on, on the topic, and I thought, wow, that's really refreshing, was so direct, and she was absolutely pivotal in my trajectory, but also getting me to the point where I am now. I don't ever think that I would've been as self-aware as I am now if it wasn't for her feedback, especially around the stories we, we tell ourselves.

Leo: I love that. I wanna talk a little bit about being the UK AM Ambassador for Women in Gaming in Africa. I know, uh, Lois quite well founded the organization, but you know, after years of being the group, CEO, you now started doing mentorship as well, right? So tell me a little bit more about that. About to start it.

Okay. So tell me a little bit more about why that matters so much for you, that organization and what you're doing there and how you're contributing.

Nakeeta: Yeah, I mean, Lois is absolutely amazing. She founded the group. You know, I think it's been [00:33:00] on her mind for a very long time, and I think it was, I think it was noticed the, the ice.

Think it was the last ice we had in the uk, the one just before that. It's, it's kind of quite out of our mind now. But, um, yeah, myself and Lo and a few other people were just having a conversation about what it's like for women in IGA and what it's like specifically for women in Africa. I. Iga. So we've seen that women in Africa have had more opportunities now to get leadership positions.

But back in the day it wasn't like that. It was usually the European teams or the American team members had the leadership positions and the team, you know, where wherever they were typically back then, it was South Africa would. Be reporting into these line managers. But there were times when we were more experienced, we understood the business more, we were more qualified, but we just had to report into people who were outside of Africa.

'cause the view was the gaming industry was more mature. I. And these guys would be better line managers and know what they're doing. And it's not a [00:34:00] anti Europe or anti-America, you know, kind of thing. I'm, I'm trying to project here, but it's more about the fact that women in Africa are already struggling with cultural context.

The cultural context is you are not worthy to do these kind of jobs. You need to be prioritizing the home. So you need to take jobs that don't expect much of you because you, your main area of contribution is in the home. And yet for many of us. It isn't that why, because. As we grew up and we ended up in households, which were run by women, we had to increase our earning potential.

We had to focus on careers so that we could facilitate our families in the way that they needed to. And so I was quite passionate about that in terms of, I. The, the, the socioeconomic challenges that are faced in South Africa all over Africa and the fact that, you know, I'm mixed race and I, I grew up in what is called the colored community of South Africa, and we are very proud of who we are.

We are a community of multi [00:35:00] race, multicultural families. You can pretty much fund almost every religion. And, and culture in most colored families because that's just the, the way it's developed. As people moved into South Africa, you know, you, you had like these specific groupings, but growing up in the colored community, I grew up with certain cultural contexts that women never looked for careers.

That's just not the way it's meant to be. But as time went on, we started changing and I think. Very crucially, what Lois is doing is she's finding a light on these brilliant women in the Africa iGaming space, whether they're still in Africa or not. She is trying to facilitate the fact that we mentor one another and give back to one another.

'cause she knows that it's a deep desire for many of us to give back to counsel someone on their career to spend time just seeing them. Grow. Funny enough, I was at a a, an event last week and I happened to be speaking to a, um, a fellow African woman, and that's exactly [00:36:00] what she needed, was, well, what's my next step?

What should I be doing? This is the kind of environment I'm in. What's next for me? But just for someone to say to her, but you are a brilliant leader. You are so fantastic at what you do. You are so respected in, in your country for your knowledge. And you could take that anywhere in the world, and you could see her eyes bright enough and and think to herself, yes.

I and this, but again, she spoke about breaking out of that mold where you expect to run a household and you expect it to cook for your husband and, and pass these challenges and tests to show that you are worth being married. You know, so, and the fact that it's still alive today, that these cultural contexts are still alive today for women who are under 30 years old, for women who are under 40 years old.

And if you think about that, it's pretty crazy. You would think that even be a talking topic. And yet it is, is your pot of food good enough? Okay, well then you're good enough to be married and alive. You know? So I, I think from that perspective, Lois is doing something really [00:37:00] magical and I think we, we are all gonna benefit from, uh, shining a thought.

On on, obviously. Yeah. I,

Leo: I love it and I love that you're being part of that, that you're progressing things and it's so rewarding as well, isn't it? When you are actually in a position where you're able to help someone see that they can't see for themselves yet empowering others I think is the best thing you can do.

So thank you for sharing that. The next thing I wanna talk about, Nikita, is your move to co-founding your own business with Strata Edge. Uh, after five years of old five years of building, building teams and growing successfully in your career, you make the decision to start for yourself, right? And. That's difficult.

That's a difficult jump. I, I remember it very well, resigning. It was sort of the, it's, it's actually probably the hardest thing I've ever done because it's so identity based. Like how did that go for you? What were some of the things that went through your mind and some of the, the worries and concerns and look, [00:38:00] talk me through that moment where you decided to leave and in fact start your own business.

Nakeeta: So I would say the, the need to. To leave was very much instigated by the fact that I needed to look after my health. That I, you know, you, I think everyone gets to a point in their career where you, uh, grow certain facets of the role that you're fulfilling and you need something bigger. Yep. And you need something different where Yep.

You know, I, I think potentially where, where you can lead a concept that you're very passionate about. So. For me, obviously yes, there was health. Yes, there was a whole passion discussion as well. What am I most passionate about? And I've got a growth mindset. I want to grow things, uh, I want to see things bloom.

So making that decision was actually really hard because now I was leaving people that I'd been working with for, you know, anywhere 2, 10, 17 years. [00:39:00] We had formed very close bonds and you are a hundred percent right when you talk about it's identity based. Who am I when I leave? And I think I actually had that conversation with you 'cause I didn't know who the hell I was.

Leo: Yeah.

Nakeeta: Once I leave, because to me I was the company. I was the job. I wasn't, I wasn't even so much my title. I was the company. I, I saw myself as part of this high of mind. You know, it made me thi think very much of a Star Trek and the Ball,

Leo: little Cutes. I like it.

Nakeeta: You know? So you, you think to yourself, well, what am I when, when I leave? And you have so many worries, you know, how will the team function? How will everyone else feel? How will it go? And so there's a lot to work through from that perspective. And it, I think it took me a good couple of weeks to work through that.

And I still, my mentor speaking to me and I actually got some [00:40:00] really good advice from you and I, and I actually did all of the exercises that you told me to do. And it does help. Just rocking it down. You have to purge it, right? Have to write and work through it. Once I left, I thought to myself, I'm going to do myself a massive favor.

Something that I've, I've not done. I'm gonna take a nice long break. I'm gonna take a nice long break and look after myself and, and, and just live my life. But the interesting thing is the industry never lets you really escape.

Leo: You know,

Nakeeta: just all, you know it, you know, people are contacting you, going, well, you know, give a bit of time on your hands.

Could you just start advice on this? Could you put me in touch with that person? And, you know, before you know it, you've, you've got like this little side hustle forming. And I didn't want it to be a side hustle because I've never been that way for me. You do it right or you don't do it. And writer's got different definitions.

It doesn't mean it has to be this long projected story, but you, you either do something with pride or you just don't touch it. And so I thought to myself, what am I most passionate about? And [00:41:00] what I'm actually passionate about is facilitation. I love bringing people together. I love bringing concepts together and would like to help.

The industry 'cause and, and I'm gonna say the industry, because it happens more often than it doesn't happen, and that is just burning massive amounts of money, testing new markets before really understanding what you're stepping into. We hear this all the time. Oh, X group is left, they spend 600 million on the market.

You know, X group has left, there's been one and a half million on the market. And I think there are ways of. I wouldn't say avoiding that, but probably making better decisions leading up to new market entry or pivoting your business in a specific direction. And that comes around with having people that are solid performers when it comes to market research and getting verifiable good information about what will it cost, tell obtains, license, or.

The cost of a player. 'cause you hear the [00:42:00] variations all the time, you know, oh, well, you know, I'm paying a thousand dollars for a player. Someone else is paying a hundred bucks for a player. And you can't understand how they got that good deal. And so I think from that perspective, uh, strategy is going to be quite different.

Industry. Yeah, I bet

Leo: from,

Nakeeta: from typical consultancies because we, we are looking at it from a different direction, and that is how do we facilitate and how do we empower the companies that we're working with so that they can do their absolute best in whatever market that decide to be. Yeah.

Leo: Yeah. Makes a lot of sense.

And I love the fact that it's so connected to the thing that you're so passionate about, which is data. And I think that's, that's, that's amazing. It's like one of the things that is probably hardest in, I certainly found hardest in leaving my, uh, my directorship is like how it affects the team and how to have that conversation.

You feel like you are. Leaving them to sink almost. Right, because you've, you've been there both for a long time and [00:43:00] how did that conversation go for you in your head, but also like in real life with them? How did that those two conversations go?

Nakeeta: In my head, it was very straightforward, right.

Leo: Yeah,

Nakeeta: it makes sense.

We all care about each other and it's time for me to move on.

Leo: Yes. Yeah.

Nakeeta: It happens very simply in your head, but then you also try and prepare yourself for different scenarios or comments or concerns and you know, what kind of message do you want to leave the team? What and the message I wanted to leave the team was they had always been exceptional professionals, outrageously.

Pushing for whatever was best for the business, even if it ruffled feathers, because

Leo: Yeah,

Nakeeta: putting of feathers, I've always said if you ruffle someone's feathers, it means you're actually doing your job. Yeah, right. Because as you, you're pushing against the complacency. You're pushing against comfort zone, of course you're gonna ruffle feathers.

But there's a difference between ruffling feathers and, [00:44:00] and getting arguments. But I wanted to leave them with that, and I wanted them to remember. What they were so strong at doing and that they could do that, whether I was around or not in person. I'd actually break the conversation down into smaller groups.

You know, it couldn't be all in one go. 'cause there was a B2B game studio, there was B2C casino operations. I worked very closely with all the teams. And so the, the context was different from that perspective. And to be honest, the conversations were a lot harder. Um, yeah, I think for some teams it was quite smooth.

Okay. They understood what was happening. They were confident in themselves and they wanted to understand what the future would look like and give that a chance there, you know, there was that, and then there were others who, you know, potentially had worked with me from the very, very beginning. And for them it was quite uncomfortable.

You know what would happen now? And how would they be able to [00:45:00] function? And I, I think in a situation like that, you can't comfort them and tell them everything's going to be okay. But what you can do is remind them of who they are and what their strengths are and how that carries them in any organization they choose to work for or service.

And, and I think that's the most important part, is you taking the spotlight. Off the company, taking the spotlight off yourself and just really helping people remember, these are your strengths. You can continue to invest those strengths here.

Leo: Yeah, I love that. Great way of approaching it, because you don't have to have all the answers.

You actually don't have the answers, right, because you don't know what the future's gonna look like. And so the answer is in their strength, they've been preparing that for that moment, their entire career. So yeah, really love that approach. So far, uh, Nikita about eight months in. What are some of the lessons or some of the biggest surprises that entrepreneurship that, you know, maybe corporate experience didn't prepare you for?[00:46:00]

Nakeeta: Oh, I wouldn't say much. I think the biggest thing has been things I've learned about myself. I.

Leo: Hmm,

Nakeeta: because I never focused on myself. I didn't have time for that. So I would say that it's more about the things that I learned about myself. One of the things is, six months ago, if you had asked me about starting my own business, I'd have been like, no, no, not interested.

I'm very good. Find me an entrepreneur who doesn't know to run a business and. I can make that work. And I'm not even saying that I'm against that. You know, part of the, the working model of Strated is to allow for us to be deployed for two to three years in specific companies, helping them grow, helping them what they need to do.

So I think that that will always be, you know, 'cause we're hot and I, we talk about it all the time and, and I say it to, you know, if every really exciting opportunity comes up, jump onto it. The consultancy isn't going to close. There's a lot of people involved in this consultancy. There's a [00:47:00] lot of people interested in being involved in this Consultancy.

Consultancy won't go anything because it's, it's got a life of its own now. Seriously, it has a life of its own. It's very interesting, but I think that's probably the biggest lesson that I learned from myself is that actually. I can start something and I can watch it grow. And just the amount of interest that we've already had in the consultancy has been absolutely amazing.

But in terms of like from a business perspective, did have I learned anything? No, because I've had to do a lot of this stuff before, uh, coming, you know, from where I had, you know, putting an entity together, making sure you've got the right banking, speaking to potential clients, and. Just making sure that the, the message of the business is understood by the industry Yep.

And what you're trying to achieve. So I think from that perspective, it's, it's almost been like putting on an old pair of comfortable shoes and, but you just, yeah. I think there are things that you learn [00:48:00] about yourself in those journey. And I, I must say like the, the partnership that I have, 'cause there are two other partners in the business, but with, with the partnership.

It's quite interesting how we give so much to each other to, because we've learned lessons along our various careers, and so our ability to care for one another, to treat each other like human beings, I think is so much more advanced. And the way we try to push one another in making achievements that's even outside of the consultancy is something that's really empowering and positive.

Leo: Yeah. Love that Nikita. Really cool. Yeah. I wish you all the success with that. It's, it's something that you've, you know, thank you for sharing all of this. It's something that you thoroughly deserve, and I really hope it all goes well. I, I, my one final question is this, if you could go back to all those years to when you were head of CRM, knowing what you know now about the cost of [00:49:00] internal success, right?

The cost of that growth that you've gone through and, and, and the mindset that you had, what would you tell her?

Nakeeta: I would've said to myself, you know, hit those boundaries. Early on. Early on because it's got nothing to do with your capability because you have a unique insight and a unique way of managing situations.

That means you will always be needed, and that was something that it took me a long time. It was actually through my mental, it's the stories we tell ourselves, right? So it took me a long time to actually realize, hang on a second, I've got all this value to add. And, and I think when, when you're overwhelmed, you don't think of that.

You don't see what you uniquely bring to a business, because at the end of the day, everyone brings something uniquely to a business. [00:50:00] It doesn't matter whether they are a call center agent or leader, or in risk, or in CRM. Every single person brings something to the team and to the business. And when you identify their skillset and their talent and you, you kind of just bring it together like a puzzle.

It's, it's so absolutely incredible. But. While I saw this in others, it took me a long time to see it in myself. And so I probably would've, and I would want to, you know, probably say this to all, uh, people in leadership positions or people who are eyeing specific career trajectories, is that they need to remember that for themselves is that they've got something they very specific that only they offer and it is useful and it carries a lot of value, and they don't actually need to prove that they are worth something because they're all ready.

Worth everything to themselves.

Leo: Yeah. Love it, love it. Be yourself, because everybody else has already taken my favorite little quote there. So, [00:51:00] hey Nikita, thank you so much for, uh, for the podcast today. I really loved it. And, uh, thank you for opening up and being so open and honest with your story. Thanks for sharing.

Nakeeta: Of course, and thank you for having me. It's been amazing.

Leo: Thank you for joining me on the iGaming Leader Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, head over to iGaming leader.com for more conversations and insights. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. I'm your host, Leo Judkins, and I hope to see you next week.